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Hide and Seek
An old friend of mine emailed this to me a while back with the subject line “Hide and Seek” and I’ve been hesitant to post it for reasons that should become obvious as you read it. That said, I feel that enough time has gone by for this to be safe so I’m going to post it here. The only edits I’ve made were swapping out names and formatting, otherwise it’s all exactly as he sent it. T, if you’re reading this then message me. I want to know if you’re alright, and if you are I know you’ll be looking for this story to show up. This is what the email said: Rijento, I’m writing this story because I feel like I need an outlet. I swear to god that you better actually check your email for once in your damn life! Please… As for if you actually are reading this, I want you to wait as long as your (admittedly) better judgment tells you to wait and then post this story online. I know it’s a bit vain, but I want people to know my story. Hell, it might be the last one I ever tell. Double hell, it might actually even help some poor soul out. I’m going to disappear after sending this, hopefully the good kind of disappear and not the death kind. I know nobody but you is going to believe this story but damn if typing this out didn’t make my sorry ass feel better. You were right about that man, I’m sorry for giving you shit for writing so much…
This is the attached file. “Hide and Seek”: Before I get in to the ‘hiding’ and ‘seeking’ I have a bit of a confession that needs to be made. I work as a transporter for a deep web black market site… I hope it doesn’t change your opinion of me too much, sorry for not telling you sooner. I’m the guy they call when they get an order for something they can’t send through the mail. Guns and live animals are two good examples. You’d be pretty hyped to know how many rich assholes just order lions and tigers from the dark web. For obvious reasons, I can’t go in to too much detail, I don’t want to make any dangerous enemies and even after this I still don’t want to lose my job. It’s a pretty sweet gig all things considered, all I have to do is pick up from the seller and deliver to the buyer. I can even choose what jobs I want to take, lets me cling to what little principles I still have. And I DO have principles. After a few years working for the site, my two rules were: no people and no crossing borders. Anyways, I got into a bit of a bind with the cryptocurrency crash that happened early this year. The site mostly pays in Bitcoin and, well, I decided to let my wallet sit and grow. By the time I realized what happened, my savings were destroyed. Nobody expected it to crash that hard… And it probably wouldn’t have been as much of a problem if I hadn’t also gotten used to living a life full of the finer things. I didn’t really ‘save’ all that much to begin with either. So when my savings finally ran dry and the market was still down, I decided to… Lower my standards a bit and take a riskier, higher paying job. Organ transport. I haven’t done it before… I hadn’t been that broke in a long time. Organ jobs pay well too, and I figured I still wasn’t strictly breaking my ‘no people’ rule if it was just their organs. So, I hopped on the site and browsed through the pitiful number of requests in my area till I found what I was looking for. A rich buyer who: had shady connections, was in need of some organs, and lacked either the time or patience to wait for them to come legally. As far as these sort of requests went, this was pretty much the norm from what I’d heard. So I accepted the job and got an email with some additional details about the order: the customer needed two kidneys (which was what I was to transport) and a liver (which they had made a separate request for). From what other people on the site have told me, what should have happened was the job would move to the ‘seeking seller’ section and I’d be on hold till someone… ‘_acquired_’ the kidneys. What actually happened probably should have tipped me off to use my monthly free withdraw… I got a notification two hours later that there was a seller. Rijento, I don’t know how much you know about medicine, but if you do know anything then you’re probably squirming in your own skin about right now. For those who may or may not be reading this that are not in the know, not only do the donor and receiver have to have compatible blood types but kidneys only last about a day outside of a warm body. Not exactly a product you can stockpile. I got another email, about the pickup this time, and began the internal debate between the bad feeling in my gut and my empty wallet… You can probably guess which one of them won out… Anyways, I planned my route; one hour to get to the seller and four hours to get from there to the buyer. I sent the site my plan and within minutes they approve of it and set up an actual meeting point. I sighed and grabbed my things, trying to swallow my nerves the entire hour it took me to reach the meeting point. I sat down on a bench in a city park and waited for what seemed like ages before I felt someone staring at me. It took me a solid minute to pick out who it was even though there were only a few people around. He was sitting with his back to me at a picnic table about ten yards away from me and whenever I looked away I could feel his eyes on me. When we eventually did make eye-contact he bounced excitedly in his seat and waved me over; my heart sank as he also slid a small case into my line of sight. I forced myself to smile, walked over, sat down, and hid my annoyance. Most of the buyers on the site were practically carbon copies of each other. Probably because you could only become a buyer if another buyer knew and endorsed you. The sellers, on the other hand, were all certifiably insane. None of the other transporters I’d chatted with had ever met with a ‘normal’ seller. Because of this, all of them quickly learned to keep conversation to a minimum and to not under any circumstances piss any of them off. I decided to follow in their example. The man sitting in front of me looked friendly enough, overly so if anything. He was scrawny, didn’t look like he would be strong enough to… well… kill someone and harvest their insides. He had a strange smile on his face, and even now I can’t get it out of my head. The kind of overly friendly, wide toothed smile that mothers warned their children to stay away from. It somehow managed to be both inviting and creepy at the same time. I smiled back and spoke up, “So you’re the seller then?” I asked, and the man nodded. He nodded and responded in a sickeningly sweet voice… He sounded like a child in a toy store, his voice strained with excitement and wonder as he droned on to his parents about what toys he wanted. “Oh I’m so glad you found me. For a minute there I thought I’d have to call ‘olly olly oxen free.’” He said with a pleased sigh, pushing the case to my side of the table. “You know… Over the years I’ve gotten quite good at playing hide and seek. So good, in fact, that I’ve never been found. Not. Even. Once. Do you want to know my secret?” the man asked, his voice still just as unsettlingly sweet as his smile. “Sure, what’s your secret?” I asked. I really, really didn’t want to know what the hell he was talking about; but if it kept him happy then… He clapped rapidly and bounced in place, “Oh I’m so glad that you’re a curious one. My secret is that the seekers never know that they’re playing.” “Makes sense…” I said, opening the case momentarily to verify. Two kidneys in pristine condition, doused with preserving fluid, wrapped in plastic. and packed in ice. “If the seeker doesn’t know they’re playing then how would they know to start looking?” I said, leaving out the fact that it would just be stalking at that point before swallowing hard when I thought about where these kidneys came from. “You’re a smart one…” he said with a smile as I sent a message confirming the pickup. All that was left was to wait for the transaction to process. “I was worried about this last one though… she came right up to me. This. Close.” he said, leaning in till our faces almost touched. I struggled to keep my composure, and managed to keep from jumping or pushing him away. “So what did you do?” I asked as he leaned back, my suspicions about these kidneys being all but confirmed. “Why, nothing of course…” He said, a slightly bewildered expression on his face. He looked as though I just asked him how to breathe. I glanced down at my phone to see if the transaction had been verified yet and he snapped his fingers like he remembered something. “Oh I must apologize!” he said, making me look up, “I forgot that you don’t play much… I simply held my breath, closed my eyes, and wished that she would just… go away.” “You’re right… You are good at hide and seek...” I said, wishing to myself that he would just go away and hearing the familiar ding of a successful transaction sound on both of our phones as if to answer my prayers. I reached out my hand as a formality and he grabbed it and shook it vigorously. I forced a smile and stood, although what he said next made my blood nearly freeze. “You’re the first person to find me in oh so long…” He trailed off as he said it, his voice slowly shifting from that of an exited child to the cold blooded maniac that he was. “Maybe my games won’t be so one sided from now on,” He said, his voice disturbingly normal. Although, even without looking back I could tell that the same sickeningly sweet smile was glued to his face. I kept walking but waved my arm as though saying goodbye. The worst part was that I could feel him watching me as I walked back to my car… Not just at first, like if he was watching me leave, but the entire way back, and even as I got in my car. I took a moment to look around and sighed as I saw nothing. It might not sound like much to you. I don’t know, I can still hardly describe it myself, but he had this… creepy way of getting under your skin just by talking to you. I wrote it off as me just being paranoid, the guy harvests organs from people for a living so of course everything he says is creepy. I groaned and started my car, but it wasn’t until I hit the freeway that I was finally able to shake the feeling of his gaze. It’s not like he could’ve been following me, by then I was already paranoid enough to be checking for that, making a few detours just to be sure of it. And because of my detours, I ended up being about an hour past the scheduled drop off with the buyer… Lost my chance at a tip for sure, guy was furious and there was nothing I could tell him to calm him down. I’m pretty sure, ‘sorry I’m late, but the seller was a total psycho and I wanted to make sure he wasn’t following me,’ wouldn’t have been a very good excuse. Whatever, I had my money and the buyer had his organs and plenty of time for whatever operation that used them. Not much to complain about on either side, well except for the fact that I already knew I wouldn’t be sleeping that night. Especially because the feeling of being watched had returned as soon as I set foot out of my car which was, again, impossible. The site never tells the sellers anything about the buyers or transporters, so there’s no way he could have known where I was headed to and no way that he could have followed me. I hopped back in my car and started to head for home, hoping that a few tabs of melatonin would be enough for at least a few hours of sleep. And again, I could feel eyes on me as I drove and I saw his eerie smile everywhere until I hit the highway. I felt a weight lift off of my shoulders then, although I made sure to take the most winding path home that I could afford gas for (which was quite a bit after a job like that). By the time I did get home it was starting to get dark, and I had made a few loops around my apartment just to be sure I didn’t still feel his eyes on me. Luckily, my apartment building has a public parking garage attached to it so even if I was being followed I felt safe enough that nobody would be able to find my room. But Just to be sure, I took the stairs for the first time in months. Have any of you ever climbed seven flights of stairs out of paranoia before Rijento? Well in case you haven’t let me tell you what it’s like. Do you remember running up the stairs from the basement after turning off the lights as a kid? That feeling of unease and terror? Well it’s like that, but you aren’t a kid anymore. It’s not the dark or what imaginary monsters could be lurking in it that frightens you anymore. Instead, you’re worried about who could be hiding in the darkness, what real monster could be following you up those stairs… I’m no slouch when it comes to exercise but it still drained everything out of me hauling my body up those stairs on my hands and feet like an animal as fast as I could. I got inside and locked the door securely behind me, panting, covered in sweat, but I sighed in relief with the fact that I hadn’t felt anyone watching me at all during my climb. I took a moment to catch my breath, slumping down by the door and chuckling to myself while shaking my head. I couldn’t believe that I’d let that freak get so deep under my skin. Once I had caught my breath, I stood up and made my way to my couch before flopping onto it. I wanted nothing more than to go to sleep then and there, but I had to be smart with my money this time. I immediately cashed the Bitcoin out. Better to pay myself out in small increments, but I had bills to pay and I’d already learned my lesson about leaving things in Bitcoin. Once business was taken care of, I grabbed the remote control and flicked on the TV. The familiar faces of the local news anchors greeted me and I began drifting off to sleep while listening to the happenings of our city. It was around seven a.m. when I was woken up by the sound of the ‘breaking news’ alert coming on. “We are just receiving reports of a ghastly murder of one [yeah, I’m not gonna put her name or age here] year old college student living on her own. Police investigators say that several of her organs were found to be missing and that they found evidence of someone living in her home without her knowledge for quite some time before the murder…” The reporters kept talking about how much of a tragedy the situation was… But I wasn’t listening. How could I listen… I’ve never been less happy to be right then I was at that moment. I shuddered thinking about it. My thoughts and paranoia regarding the man I’d met the other day bubbling back up to the surface. It was then that the reality of what I’d done hit me like a freight train. By accepting that contract I doomed that girl to die… All because I needed some quick cash. I stood up and went to the kitchen and opened my liquor cabinet. Without looking, I grabbed a bottle of something with shaking hands and fumbled with the top while trying to keep my mind clear of thoughts. Once I had the cap off I took several deep swigs from the bottle, spilling quite a bit down my chin before I set it down and gasped for air. The burn of the alcohol in my throat gave me something to focus on while it worked its magic on the rest of my body. As my mind slowly clouded I found my way to a chair and found it easier to think about what happened without panicking. My first thought was that I needed to do something. I knew the guy’s face, I should go to the cops! It was at this moment that the… Less impulsive side of my brain kicked in. I go to the cops and all I do is give myself a one way ticket to an early grave. My employers don’t take kindly to police interactions. I slowly resigned myself to the fact that I was going to have to live with the consequences of this job for the rest of my life… I’m a coward, I know. Anyways, the next few days passed by slowly. I was… Not in a good place mentally and I’m sure you remember how much alcohol my cabinets were stocked with. I blacked out more than once only to wake up gasping for breath from drinking too much. It was honestly a miracle that I didn’t kill myself through alcohol poisoning. But I… Managed to come to terms with everything. Don’t get me wrong, I still had nightmares where I was the guy hiding in that girls closet… But I wasn’t drinking my problems away anymore, although I think that was more because of the fact that I’d run out of liquor than any meaningful character development. It was about a week later that I was able to get my first night of actual sleep. I didn’t dream about anything either so that was a plus. I know it probably sounds bad, but I was starting to feel normal again… Like I could maybe find a way to just be myself… Either way, even after all that I still wanted to keep my job. I just added a new rule: no organs. From there I fell back into more or less my old routine. I went to eat out almost every day though, I thought any excuse that got me cleaned up and out of my place was worth taking… And then, I began to feel it again. That skin-crawling sensation of eyes on me from somewhere that I felt the day I met Mr. Hide&Seek. I didn’t think much of it at first, I only felt the eyes when I was surrounded by other people so of course one or two would be looking my way right? I thought I was just guilty and paranoid. But no matter what I did, I would always feel like I was being watched whenever other people were around. So I started driving more and more and eating out less and less. Not driving anywhere in particular, just driving… I felt safe on the open road, I couldn’t feel any eyes on me… For about a week. It started small. A shiver down my spine here and there. A sharp sensation that made my eyes snap to one car or another. Then it came more frequently, and I began to get more and more paranoid as the feeling became stronger and stronger. I started driving less and less, and whenever I did, I kept my eyes on the cars around me. Trying desperately to find where that feeling was coming from. To find who was watching me… Trying to catch a glimpse of his face in a passing car. I even thought I did see him a few times… Except that was just paranoia… I hope. Eventually, I stopped driving unless I had to. I shut myself in my apartment, only going out to get groceries and always, always making sure that I didn’t feel anyone watching me before I parked. But that feeling would always find me whenever I went out. This went on for about a month. I started to drink again, I didn’t go out to eat or drive anymore. I paid someone to deliver my groceries to the garage of my building. All I did was eat, sleep, drink, and watch movies or play games… I’d be living the dream, if I didn’t think a serial killer was stalking me. Part of me believed that I was just being paranoid and to be honest I desperately wanted to believe that part of me… But not enough to stake my life on it. And after another week of living like a shut-in the feeling of being watched started to re-surface. Like before it started off small. I felt a ping of eyes on me and from then on I kept the blinds securely closed. Even then, the feeling persisted for days, gradually gathering in strength. So I emptied out all of my closets and cabinets daily… Eventually I just left all of the doors open and everything on the floor so that I could look in to any hiding spot in an instant… But that feeling still persisted. I stopped drinking because I was terrified of being attacked. I started sleeping less and less and when I had to sleep, I slept inside of my closet and barred the doors shut from the inside. I ate and drank only when I felt hungry and always with my back to a corner of the room or locked in my closet… But I could still feel eyes on me, feel His eyes on me the same way I had back at the park. It was about a month later when I finally discovered my haven. The one place left that I didn’t feel watched. The stairwell of my building. I found that whenever I went down and back up the stars to get my groceries – as I’d long since stopped using the elevator – that I would have a brief respite from the feeling of being watched. I started to spend all of my waking hours there, sat on one of the stairs without a care in the world. I only left them to eat and sleep and whenever I entered the building proper I would feel eyes on me almost immediately. But having those stairs to return to made my life almost bearable. It had been a long time since I had anywhere I felt safe, and like every place before it I kept waiting form the feeling of being watched to follow me into the stairwell… But it never did. For another month, I fell into a somewhat bearable rhythm. I’d wake up in my closet feeling watched, I’d eat in the corner of my kitchen feeling watched, and then I’d scurry off to the stairwell where I could blessedly feel alone – Especially near the top floors where the stairs were seldom used. But all good things must come to an end and all that, and while I never did feel watched in the stairs, I did run out of money. Apartments and cars don’t pay for themselves after all, and while I managed a few months on the blood money from my last job it was finally time to get back to work. In the months since I last logged on to the site, things had calmed down significantly and there were now plenty of jobs that didn’t break any of my rules… So I decided to go with a route that I’d done before a couple of times. A gun run. The seller always treated me to a drink or two at his bar and was also always well armed so I felt that it would be a nice and easy job that I could feel safe doing. After confirming the job I closed my laptop, pulled on a fresh set of clothing, and headed out the door. I wanted to get this over and done with, and thankfully the feeling of being watched was rather light that day. I do admit, however, that I lingered in the stairwell for a bit before heading out. I wanted a bit of time alone before being out in the open for the first time in months. Anyways, I hopped in my car after about thirty minutes of blessed stairwell time and headed to the bar. After about two hours of paranoid and twisting driving I managed to make it just on time and pulled my car into the alleyway behind the bar. The owner greeted me with a smile as I got out of my car, “T, long time no see!” he said, his smile fading as I walked up and he got a better look at me. “Holy shit man, are you feeling okay?” he asked, genuine worry in the eyes of the large man. “No… I’m pretty far from okay…” I said with an exhausted sigh. I could still feel the faintest hint of eyes on me even now, though I know that the owner wouldn’t let me be jumped at his bar. “It’s a long story,” I offered, realizing for the first time that it might be nice to actually tell someone what happened. “Is that so.” he said with a hint of a smile and a shake of his head. “Well, hows about we get you a drink while the boys get ready to load up your car.” He offered in return, making me smile. “There’s always plenty of time for stories at my bar.” He said proudly. “I’d like that…” I said with another exhausted sigh, managing to keep the smile up as he put an arm around me and lead me in the back door of the bar. “Oh, by the way, how did you hold up during the bitcoin crash? I heard it hit a couple of transporters pretty hard.” he said, making me chuckle as we made our way through the kitchen. “Funny you should mention that,” I said, making him raise an eyebrow, “because that’s how my long story star—” I began, only to stop short when I looked at the bar. HE was siting there, sipping on a beer without a care in the world. He noticed me out of the corner of his eye and that same sickeningly sweet smile crept onto his face as his eyes met mine. I froze. There was no way that this was a coincidence. There was no way that he just happened to be at this bar at this time. I was broken from my trance by the bar owner waving his hand in front of my face and saying my name, “Hello? T, you alright?” I quickly ducked back into the kitchen and started to hyperventilate. How did he know? How could he possibly have known that I would be here? Did he follow me? “Did who follow you?” The owner’s voice brought me back to reality once again as I realized I’d been thinking out loud. His face was concerned, bordering on scared. “How long has that guy been at the bar?” I asked, hoping that the owner knew who I was talking about. “If you mean tall, thin, and creepy then about an hour… What is going on T?” He asked, as I slumped against the wall. I started crying. I broke down and burst back into the bar only to see that Mr. Hide&Seek he was already gone. “I… I need to go. I need to get home!” I said, pushing past the owner and running to my car. He called after me, trying to get me to stay and explain what the hell was happening but I wasn’t listening. For all I know, Mr. Hide&Seek could be breaking in to my apartment already. I drove straight home and threw open the door to my apartment. It had still been locked, but I wasn’t taking any chances. I grabbed a knife from the kitchen and checked everywhere. But he wasn’t there. Then, my phone rang and scared the living hell out of me. I checked the number and gulped when I saw that it was blocked. I considered not answering but in the end I picked up the call. “H-Hello?” I asked tentatively. “T… What the hell happened at the bar?” a modulated voice rang through the speaker in my ear, making me wince. It was one of the site admins for sure. I was silent for a moment before telling the admin everything. I couldn’t see the man, but I could feel a sudden change when I mentioned seeing Mr. Hide&Seek at the bar. “T,” the admin began, a serious edge to his voice. “I need you to log in to the site… _Now_” he said, and something in me told me to listen. I booted up my laptop and hopped on to the site. As soon as I logged in a dialog appeared that I’d never seen before. ‘ADMIN would like to take control of this computer. Do you consent to this?’ With two buttons. One for yes. One for no. I clicked yes and watched as my cursor began to move on it’s own. “Thank you T. This will only take a moment…” the admin said, a practiced calm in his voice as he downloaded several files and began to do… Something on my laptop. A minute later a dialog box popped up that said, ‘Threat detected!’ and the admin sighed and his voice sharpened as he spoke. “T… You’ve been compromised. You’ve had a nasty piece of spyware installed on your machine, for about a month by the looks of things. It’s been recording your keystrokes and giving someone remote access to your camera…” the admin explained, making me gulp as I realized that all of my information was insecure. “B-but, there’s no way! I haven’t download anything!” I said, making the admin mutter something as a bout of typing could be heard coming through the phone. The admin’s voice was cold and calculated when he spoke next. “No… No you didn’t…” he said, making me gulp. “This software was installed via _USB_…” the admin said, making my heart nearly stop. Hide&Seek had been in my home! He had been here without me noticing and put that program on my laptop. Even after all of my paranoia, he still found his way into my room without me knowing. “I’m going to delete the program,” the admin said, and a few keystrokes later, “done… What the—” As the admin deleted the program, thousands of windows began popping up on the screen of my laptop. All of them saying the same thing… ‘olly olly oxen free’ After that, I threw my laptop in the trash and got a new one as well as a new phone, sim card and all. I was taking no chances. I got all new accounts for everything and the admin told me he revoked Mr. Hide&Seek’s membership personally. But I’m going to disappear all the same, I have a plane ticket to somewhere and my bags are already packed. Don’t look for me, and if you ever start to feel like you’re being watched… It’s because you are.
05-09 09:24 - 'Look. Crypto currencies are fascist communist reserves where people put their money together and those quickest to grab the lot win the prize.' (self.Bitcoin) by /u/okboyo2 removed from /r/Bitcoin within 922-932min
''' Here's what the stock market is like in olden day terms. You give money to an entrepreneur and he uses it to make more money and you get a percentage of the profit. Here's what crypto currencies is like in olden day terms. Everyone in the village puts their gold into a pile. At night some people take all the gold. They encourage the people to put their gold again into the pile. Some people see what's happening and they encourage also. They partake in taking the gold at night also and doing the same thing again, encouraging more to put their gold in the pile. Since a fool is born every minute the thievery will continue until the game is outlawed. You know it's wrong, even if you can gain from being part of it, you're just stealing someone else's money. Maybe not everyone realizes it's a shell game but you do now, it's simply wrong. Even I have been tempted by the allure of it, we all probably have been, but I'm speaking against it because it's wrong, not because I can't give into it. If you give into this temptation eventually the guilt will catch up with you at some point, or else you'll just become a hardened, cold, hateful person who nobody likes because you're afraid people will judge you and treat you differently for your ill-gotten gain and try and take from you your precious. Get rich or die trying is a real killer. Some guy was stealing from people, when he heard a man tell him some great news he immediately did what he said he would do and pay everyone back 4 times as much as he took from them, and give half of everything that he owned unto the poor. ''' Look. Crypto currencies are fascist communist reserves where people put their money together and those quickest to grab the lot win the prize. Go1dfish undelete link unreddit undelete link Author: okboyo2
I am a comedian who does a MLM scam thing as part of his act. I have been to a lot of seminars as part of research for my act. Here are some of the things I have witnessed.
Hello there. I am a comedian. My act entails me to pretend to be a self-proclaimed financial expert who can lead you to riches via by paying for his seminajoining my nutritional supplement sales force/learning my bitcoin investing techniques. I won't say my name or link to my act out of respect for the rules. I just discovered this forum. I have no idea how I haven't visited yet. I've been a hobbyist in comedy for over a decade. I also professionally used to write about finance and econ and etc. I've long been interested in con men and scams and the like. About four years ago, I conceived of this new act and decided to run with it. This was largely done after rereading "Rich Dad Poor Dad" for the first time in a few years and really being grossed out by what I read. And, wouldn't you know it, a little bit after that a Rich Dad Seminar was coming to a crappy chain hotel ballroom the next week just a few minutes from my house. This as the first of many of these types of seminars that I went to as sort of a weird method acting thing to study how the seminars operated and the types of people who lead them. The most MLM one I went to was this really weird bitcoin thing. It was held at a Bonefish Grille near where I live. There was the promise of a free appetizer (Bang Bang Shrimp, specifically). I went and sat down with this middle aged white guy. We started talking. He asked me if I was interested in investing in bitcoin. I told him "no." I didn't tell him why I was there, but said I was curious about learning about any investment opportunity. This guy was an insurance broker with a college degree. He said he was always looking for some more opportunities and had done some "direct sales" things like some sort of vacation club on the side. He was really afraid missing out on bitcoin. I asked him why he hadn't just bought bitcoin and instead was at this event. He did not really have an answer. He then told me after to give him my thoughts whether or not I thought the thing was a scam. The two people leading the event were a husband and wife. The husband claimed his face was used when he was a baby on a can of Gerber's baby food. He also said he worked for the local radio news station doing traffic updates for years. However, he got really sick after he contracted lyme disease after walking his dog in the woods. This drained the savings of he and his wife (who said she was a teacher at a local school). All of this was just sort of dubious to start with. There's no way to prove you were a baby model. I have no recollection of this man doing traffic updates on this station (which I listen to frequently). Why didn't he have health insurance through his job? Or what about through his wife since public school teachers have pretty good insurance a lot of times? But that was their whole "rags-to-riches" angle. EVERY single one of these seminars is led by a spokesperson overcoming some type of odds. They then said they knew they needed to take the bull by the horns to get a hold of their financial independence and wanted their friends ("both old and new!") to learn those techniques, too. And this came via a unique bitcoin investment scheme. It worked like this. For 50 euros (yes, euros, not US$) you would buy into a "virtual box." This virtual box would accrue interest somehow. And after a certain amount of time (I can't remember what, something like 90 days) then this "virtual box" would then allow you to buy bitcoin. OR it could roll over and your box could expand and allow you to get even more bitcoin down the line. The company was also registered in Dubai. There could not possibly be more red flags. And then came the best part. The couple said your box would "automatically grow" if you could recruit your friends and families to also invest, and you could get your box to grow further if they could get others to join. I am not even kidding when I state that as part of the power point presentation they essentially drew a pyramid to show how it worked. The guy I was with asked me what I think. I pointed out that they literally drew a pyramid as part of the business plan. And that you had to for some reason use euros to hand over to a company registered in Dubai. And, also, why not just buy bitcoin? He said he thought of all of that too but thought it sounded like a good opportunity. He gave me his card and I e-mailed him a week later. He ended up actually buying into this thing. I also sneaked into an Herbalife event. I was actually at a different seminar at the same hotel and heard all of this crazy noise in a nearby room. I went to go see what it was and it was some sort of celebration for top selling Herbalife people in my state. I walked in casually as a wedding band was playing a Killers song and just tried to blend in. But some goony security type guard blocked my path and asked me who I was. (Everyone else was wearing nametags.) I said I was at a different event at the hotel but saw this and it looked like fun and wanted to know what it was about. Someone else then explained it was for Herbalife and I pretended I didn't know what that was. (I watched the documentary on it the week before and had known about it before that already.) The person speaking to me gave me the basics and his card and wanted me to join his "exercise squad" the next weekend. I have been to two Rich Dad seminars and two Than Merril "Flip This House" seminars. They're all the same thing. The hosts wear a wireless headset microphone. They have some sob story. They were all before the election claiming they were close friends with Donald Trump. (That got toned down after his candidacy heated up and he became controversial. My area also is heavily Democrat, so not a good bragging point.) The audience members were filled with a lot of recent immigrants (Eastern Europeans) or people who, after speaking with them for a few, were struggling to make ends meet and wanted to do better financially and probably read Rich Dad but didn't know the basics of how to save. The first Rich Dad seminar was hosted by this guy from Oklahoma who was about 60. He claimed to have been some hotshot real estate investor. And he namedropped some celebrities he claimed to have mentored over the years. One was former NBA player Antoine Walker, who literally was the person the 30 for 30 "Broke" was inspired by due to his financial mismanagement. This guy claimed he was able to write off taxes for a recent trip he took to Spain (since he was looking at investment properties) and etc. He also pointed to a woman in the crowd at one point and asked what her credit score was. Before she could answer, he responded by saying "I know your credit score is bad just by looking at you. It's so bad, in fact, that I bet it's coming alive and it's waiting next to that guy's piece of shit car and it's going to kill you." Also at this event was a second speaker who was hawking some sort of stock picking software. He was Canadian. In his sob story, he mentioned how he had lost his job and "at one point, I literally looked my son in the eye and told him I could no longer provide for him and I was a failure of a father." He said this with tears in his eyes and I am almost completely certain that this was, in fact, an honest statement. He also ranted about mutual funds and their "hidden fees" and said this software would help you pick what stocks to buy by giving you information about different categories (I'm guessing stuff like P/E ratio) and if enough were "green lights" then it was a good buy. Just a truly gross thing to hawk to people new to investing. I was also kicked out of one event. This was for some sort of direct marketing e-mail thing that made zero sense whatsoever. I went with a friend of mine. About 30 minutes or so into the speech, the host said "if you're interested, just head to the back of the room to my colleague and sign up and we'll get you started." After a few seconds, this woman sitting in the front row meekly got up, looked around, and headed back. This opened up the floodgates. Almost everyone in the room followed her soon after. It was pretty clear to me that she was a plant -- sitting in the front row let everyone see her move forward and put on the pressure. My friend and I eventually went back. The "contract" to sign was some mimeographed piece of paper that would charge you $400 to go to the next level of seminars. The company was based in Malaysia. I had a notepad with me to take notes and I tried to keep the mimeograph hidden as you weren't allowed to take it out of the room. (They claim at all of these that any information is protected under copyright law so you can't record it or bring anything home, which is not how copyright law works.) The guy leading the seminar saw that I had the mimeograph and demanded that I return it to the dude in the back. I said I would but instead turned to the door. A different guy blocked the door and ordered me to hand over the mimeograph. I for some reason did and then the host said "I hate it when people try to act slick" before he told me to leave. These events are a really insane subculture. I love going to them in terms of the bizarre world of the seminar professional. I feel really bad for the people who actually do go and end up handing over money. I sometimes afterwards will hang out and see people in the parking lot and tell them it's a scam and explain why. I hope they believe me. I wish I could tell everyone. But just doing a parody act of all of these things I hope can help put a light on the horrors of the MLM world to some degree.
An extensive guide for cashing out bitcoin and cryptocurrencies into private banks
Hey guys. Merry Xmas ! I am coming back to you with a follow up post, as I have helped many people cash out this year and I have streamlined the process. After my original post, I received many requests to be more specific and provide more details. I thought that after the amazing rally we have been attending over the last few months, and the volatility of the last few days, it would be interesting to revisit more extensively. The attitude of banks around crypto is changing slowly, but it is still a tough stance. For the first partial cash out I operated around a year ago for a client, it took me months to find a bank. They wouldn’t want to even consider the case and we had to knock at each and every door. Despite all my contacts it was very difficult back in the days. This has changed now, and banks have started to open their doors, but there is a process, a set of best practices and codes one has to follow. I often get requests from crypto guys who are very privacy-oriented, and it takes me months to have them understand that I am bound by Swiss law on banking secrecy, and I am their ally in this onboarding process. It’s funny how I have to convince people that banks are legit, while on the other side, banks ask me to show that crypto millionaires are legit. I have a solid background in both banking and in crypto so I manage to make the bridge, but yeah sometimes it is tough to reconcile the two worlds. I am a crypto enthusiast myself and I can say that after years of work in the banking industry I have grown disillusioned towards banks as well, like many of you. Still an account in a Private bank is convenient and powerful. So let’s get started.
A. What is required to open an account in a Private bank when you made your fortune through crypto.
There are two different aspects to your onboarding in a Swiss Private bank, compliance-wise. *The origin of your crypto wealth *Your background (residence, citizenship and probity) These two aspects must be documented in-depth. How to document your crypto wealth. Each new crypto millionaire has a different story. I may detail a few fun stories later in this post, but at the end of the day, most of crypto rich I have met can be categorized within the following profiles: the miner, the early adopter, the trader, the corporate entity, the black market, the libertarian/OTC buyer. The real question is how you prove your wealth is legit. 1. Context around the original amount/investment Generally speaking, your first crypto purchase may not be documented. But the context around this acquisition can be. I have had many cases where the original amount was bought through Mtgox, and no proof of purchase could be provided, nor could be documented any Mtgox claim. That’s perfectly fine. At some point Mtgox amounted 70% of the bitcoin transactions globally, and people who bought there and managed to withdraw and keep hold of their bitcoins do not have any Mtgox claim. This is absolutely fine. However, if you can show me the record of a wire from your bank to Tisbane (Mtgox's parent company) it's a great way to start. Otherwise, what I am trying to document here is the following: I need context. If you made your first purchase by saving from summer jobs, show me a payroll. Even if it was USD 2k. If you acquired your first bitcoins from mining, show me the bills of your mining equipment from 2012 or if it was through a pool mine, give me your slushpool account ref for instance. If you were given bitcoin against a service you charged, show me an invoice. 2. Tracking your wealth until today and making sense of it. What I have been doing over the last few months was basically educating compliance officers. Thanks God, the blockchain is a global digital ledger! I have been telling my auditors and compliance officers they have the best tool at their disposal to lead a proper investigation. Whether you like it or not, your wealth can be tracked, from address to address. You may have thought all along this was a bad feature, but I am telling you, if you want to cash out, in the context of Private Banking onboarding, tracking your wealth through the block explorer is a boon. We can see the inflows, outflows. We can see the age behind an address. An early adopter who bought 1000 BTC in 2010, and let his bitcoin behind one address and held thus far is legit, whether or not he has a proof of purchase to show. That’s just common sense. My job is to explain that to the banks in a language they understand. Let’s have a look at a few examples and how to document the few profiles I mentioned earlier. The trader. I love traders. These are easy cases. I have a ton of respect for them. Being a trader myself in investment banks for a decade earlier in my career has taught me that controlling one’s emotions and having the discipline to impose oneself some proper risk management system is really really hard. Further, being able to avoid the exchange bankruptcy and hacks throughout crypto history is outstanding. It shows real survival instinct, or just plain blissed ignorance. In any cases traders at exchange are easy cases to corroborate since their whole track record is potentially available. Some traders I have met have automated their trading and have shown me more than 500k trades done over the span of 4 years. Obviously in this kind of scenario I don’t show everything to the bank to avoid information overload, and prefer to do some snacking here and there. My strategy is to show the early trades, the most profitable ones, explain the trading strategy and (partially expose) the situation as of now with id pages of the exchanges and current balance. Many traders have become insensitive to the risk of parking their crypto at exchange as they want to be able to trade or to grasp an occasion any minute, so they generally do not secure a substantial portion on the blockchain which tends to make me very nervous. The early adopter. Provided that he has not mixed his coin, the early adopter or “hodler” is not a difficult case either. Who cares how you bought your first 10k btc if you bought them below 3$ ? Even if you do not have a purchase proof, I would generally manage to find ways. We just have to corroborate the original 30’000 USD investment in this case. I mainly focus on three things here: *proof of early adoption I have managed to educate some banks on a few evidences specifically related to crypto markets. For instance with me, an old bitcointalk account can serve as a proof of early adoption. Even an old reddit post from a few years ago where you say how much you despise this Ripple premined scam can prove to be a treasure readily available to show you were early. *story telling Compliance officers like to know when, why and how. They are human being looking for simple answers to simple questions and they don’t want like to be played fool. Telling the truth, even without a proof can do wonders, and even though bluffing might still work because banks don’t fully understand bitcoin yet, it is a risky strategy that is less and less likely to pay off as they are getting more sophisticated by the day. *micro transaction from an old address you control This is the killer feature. Send a $20 worth transaction from an old address to my company wallet and to one of my partner bank’s wallet and you are all set ! This is gold and considered a very solid piece of evidence. You can also do a microtransaction to your own wallet, but banks generally prefer transfer to their own wallet. Patience with them please. they are still learning. *signature message Why do a micro transaction when you can sign a message and avoid potentially tainting your coins ? *ICO millionaire Some clients made their wealth participating in ETH crowdsale or IOTA ICO. They were very easy to deal with obviously and the account opening was very smooth since we could evidence the GENESIS TxHash flow. The miner Not so easy to proof the wealth is legit in that case. Most early miners never took screenshot of the blocks on bitcoin core, nor did they note down the block number of each block they mined. Until the the Slashdot article from August 2010 anyone could mine on his laptop, let his computer run overnight and wake up to a freshly minted block containing 50 bitcoins back in the days. Not many people were structured enough to store and secure these coins, avoid malwares while syncing the blockchain continuously, let alone document the mined blocks in the process. What was 50 BTC worth really for the early miners ? dust of dollars, games and magic cards… Even miners post 2010 are generally difficult to deal with in terms of compliance onboarding. Many pool mining are long dead. Deepbit is down for instance and the founders are MIA. So my strategy to proof mining activity is as follow: *Focusing on IT background whenever possible. An IT background does help a lot to bring some substance to the fact you had the technical ability to operate a mining rig. *Showing mining equipment receipts. If you mined on your own you must have bought the hardware to do so. For instance mining equipment receipts from butterfly lab from 2012-2013 could help document your case. Similarly, high electricity bill from your household on a consistent basis back in the day could help. I have already unlocked a tricky case in the past with such documents when the bank was doubtful. *Wallet.dat files with block mining transactions from 2011 thereafter This obviously is a fantastic piece of evidence for both you and me if you have an old wallet and if you control an address that received original mined blocks, (even if the wallet is now empty). I will make sure compliance officers understand what it means, and as for the early adopter, you can prove your control over these wallet through a microtransaction. With these kind of addresses, I can show on the block explorer the mined block rewards hitting at regular time interval, and I can even spot when difficulty level increased or when halvening process happened. *Poolmining account. Here again I have educated my partner bank to understand that a slush account opened in 2013 or an OnionTip presence was enough to corroborate mining activity. The block explorer then helps me to do the bridge with your current wallet. *Describing your set up and putting it in context In the history of mining we had CPU, GPU, FPG and ASICs mining. I will describe your technical set up and explain why and how your set up was competitive at that time. The corporate entity Remember 2012 when we were all convinced bitcoin would take over the world, and soon everyone would pay his coffee in bitcoin? How naïve we were to think transaction fees would remain low forever. I don’t blame bitcoin cash supporters; I once shared this dream as well. Remember when we thought global adoption was right around the corner and some brick and mortar would soon accept bitcoin transaction as a common mean of payment? Well, some shop actually did accept payment and held. I had a few cases as such of shops holders, who made it to the multi million mark holding and had invoices or receipts to proof the transactions. If you are organized enough to keep a record for these trades and are willing to cooperate for the documentation, you are making your life easy. The digital advertising business is also a big market for the bitcoin industry, and affiliates partner compensated in btc are common. It is good to show an invoice, it is better to show a contract. If you do not have a contract (which is common since all advertising deals are about ticking a check box on the website to accept terms and conditions), there are ways around that. If you are in that case, pm me. The black market Sorry guys, I can’t do much for you officially. Not that I am judging you. I am a libertarian myself. It’s just already very difficult to onboard legit btc adopters, so the black market is a market I cannot afford to consider. My company is regulated so KYC and compliance are key for me if I want to stay in business. Behind each case I push forward I am risking the credibility and reputation I have built over the years. So I am sorry guys I am not risking it to make an extra buck. Your best hope is that crypto will eventually take over the world and you won’t need to cash out anyway. Or go find a Lithuanian bank that is light on compliance and cooperative. The OTC buyer and the libertarian. Generally a very difficult case. If you bought your stack during your journey in Japan 5 years ago to a guy you never met again; or if you accumulated on https://localbitcoins.com/ and kept no record or lost your account, it is going to be difficult. Not impossible but difficult. We will try to build a case with everything else we have, and I may be able to onboard you. However I am risking a lot here so I need to be 100% confident you are legit, before I defend you. Come & see me in Geneva, and we will talk. I will run forensic services like elliptic, chainalysis, or scorechain on an extract of your wallet. If this scan does not raise too many red flags, then maybe we can work together ! If you mixed your coins all along your crypto history, and shredded your seeds because you were paranoid, or if you made your wealth mining professionally monero over the last 3 years but never opened an account at an exchange. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ I am not a magician and don’t get me wrong, I love monero, it’s not the point. Cashing out ICOs Private companies or foundations who have ran an ICO generally have a very hard time opening a bank account. The few banks that accept such projects would generally look at 4 criteria: *Seriousness of the project Extensive study of the whitepaper to limit the reputation risk *AML of the onboarding process ICOs 1.0 have no chance basically if a background check of the investors has not been conducted *Structure of the moral entity List of signatories, certificate of incumbency, work contract, premises... *Fiscal conformity Did the company informed the authorities and seek a fiscal ruling.
B. The tax issue I am not a tax specialist, but I can say that this year I have seen it all. Again I am not judging. You made $100m hodling, and still wouldn’t pay your taxes ? Your decision.I personally advise everyone to pay their taxes, but also to be generous, to give to charities. I mean you eventually made it. Good for you. What about you contribute to make the world a better place now? I will stop patronizing you. It’s just my 2cts, and it’s your money.
For the record, I am not into the tax avoidance business, so people come to me with a set up and I see if I can make it work within the legal framework imposed to me. First, stop thinking Switzerland is a “offshore heaven” Swiss banks have made deals with many governments for the exchange of fiscal information. If you are a French citizen, resident in France and want to open an account in a Private Bank in Switzerland to cash out your bitcoins, you will get slaughtered (>60%). There are ways around that, and I could refer you to good tax specialists for fiscal optimization, but I cannot organize it myself. It would be illegal for me. Swiss private banks makes it easy for you to keep a good your relation with your retail bank and continue paying your bills without headaches. They are integrated to SEPA, provide ebanking and credit cards. For information, these are the kind of set up some of my clients came up with. It’s all legal; obviously I do not onboard clients that are not tax compliant. Further disclaimer: I did not contribute myself to these set up. Do not ask me to organize it for you. I won’t. EU tricks Swiss lump sum taxation Foreign nationals resident in Switzerland can be taxed on a lump-sum basis if they are not gainfully employed in our country. Under the lump-sum tax regime, foreign nationals taking residence in Switzerland may choose to pay an expense-based tax instead of ordinary income and wealth tax. Attractive cantons for the lump sum taxation are Zug, Vaud, Valais, Grisons, Lucerne and Berne. To make it short, you will be paying somewhere between 200 and 400k a year and all expenses will be deductible. Switzerland has adopted a very friendly attitude towards crypto currency in general. There is a whole crypto valley in Zug now. 30% of ICOs are operated in Switzerland. The reason is that Switzerland has thrived for centuries on banking secrecy, and today with FATCA and exchange of fiscal info with EU, banking secrecy is dead. Regulators in Switzerland have understood that digital ledger technologies were a way to roll over this competitive advantage for the generations to come. Switzerland does not tax capital gains on crypto profits. The Finma has a very pragmatic approach. They have issued guidance- updated guidelines here. They let the business get organized and operate their analysis on a case per case basis. Only after getting a deep understanding of the market will they issue a global fintech license in 2019. This approach is much more realistic than legislations which try to regulate everything beforehand. Italy new tax exemption. It’s a brand new fiscal exemption. Go to Aoste, get residency and you could be taxed a 100k/year for 10years. Yes, really. Portugal What’s crazy in Europe is the lack of fiscal harmonization. Even if no one in Brussels dares admit it, every other country is doing fiscal dumping. Portugal is such a country and has proved very friendly fiscally speaking. I personally have a hard time trusting Europe. I have witnessed what happened in Greece over the last few years. Some of our ultra high net worth clients got stuck with capital controls. I mean no way you got out of crypto to have your funds confiscated at the next financial crisis! Anyway. FYI Malta Generally speaking, if you get a residence somewhere you have to live there for a certain period of time. Being stuck in Italy is no big deal with Schengen Agreement, but in Malta it is a different story. In Malta, the ordinary residence scheme is more attractive than the HNWI residence scheme. Being an individual, you can hold a residence permit under this scheme and pay zero income tax in Malta in a completely legal way. Monaco Not suitable for French citizens, but for other Ultra High Net worth individual, Monaco is worth considering. You need an account at a local bank as a proof of fortune, and this account generally has to be seeded with at least EUR500k. You also need a proof of residence. I do mean UHNI because if you don’t cash out minimum 30m it’s not interesting. Everything is expensive in Monaco. Real Estate is EUR 50k per square meter. A breakfast at Monte Carlo Bay hotel is 70 EUR. Monaco is sunny but sometimes it feels like a golden jail. Do you really want that for your kids? Dubaï
Set up a company in Dubaï, get your resident card.
Spend one day every 6 month there
Be tax free
US tricks Some Private banks in Geneva do have the license to manage the assets of US persons and U.S citizens. However, do not think it is a way to avoid paying taxes in the US. Opening an account at an authorized Swiss Private banks is literally the same tax-wise as opening an account at Fidelity or at Bank of America in the US. The only difference is that you will avoid all the horror stories. Horror stories are all real by the way. In Switzerland, if you build a decent case and answer all the questions and corroborate your case in depth, you will manage to convince compliance officers beforehand. When the money eventually hits your account, it is actually available and not frozen. The IRS and FATCA require to file FBAR if an offshore account is open. However FBAR is a reporting requirement and does not have taxes related to holding an account outside the US. The taxes would be the same if the account was in the US. However penalties for non compliance with FBAR are very large. The tax liability management is actually performed through the management of the assets ( for exemple by maximizing long term capital gains and minimizing short term gains). The case for Porto Rico. Full disclaimer here. I am not encouraging this. Have not collaborated on such tax avoidance schemes. if you are interested I strongly encourage you to seek a tax advisor and get a legal opinion. I am not responsible for anything written below. I am not going to say much because I am so afraid of uncle Sam that I prefer to humbly pass the hot potato to pwc From here all it takes is a good advisor and some creativity to be tax free on your crypto wealth if you are a US person apparently. Please, please please don’t ask me more. And read the disclaimer again. Trust tricks Generally speaking I do not accept fringe fiscal situation because it puts me in a difficult situation to the banks I work with, and it is already difficult enough to defend a legit crypto case. Trust might be a way to optimize your fiscal situation. Belize. Bahamas. Seychelles. Panama, You name it. At the end of the day, what matters for Swiss Banks are the beneficial owner and the settlor. Get a legal opinion, get it done, and when you eventually knock at a private bank’s door, don’t say it was for fiscal avoidance you stupid ! You will get the door smashed upon you. Be smarter. It will work. My advice is just to have it done by a great tax specialist lawyer, even if it costs you some money, as the entity itself needs to be structured in a professional way. Remember that with trust you are dispossessing yourself off your wealth. Not something to be taken lightly. “Anonymous” cash out. Right. I think I am not going into this topic, neither expose the ways to get it done. Pm me for details. I already feel a bit uncomfortable with all the info I have provided. I am just going to mention many people fear that crypto exchange might become reporting entities soon, and rightly so. This might happen anyday. You have been warned. FYI, this only works for non-US and large cash out. The difference between traders an investors. Danmark, Holland and Germany all make a huge difference if you are a passive investor or if you are a trader. ICO is considered investing for instance and is not taxed, while trading might be considered as income and charged aggressively. I would try my best to protect you and put a focus on your investor profile whenever possible, so you don't have to pay 52% tax if you do not have to :D
C. The cash out itself So you have accumulated patiently a good amount of wealth. For some of us who have been involved in crypto since 2010, it took years. Remember when BTC was stuck at 200$ for months? I personally feel like it was yesterday. There is no way you screw up your wealth by cashing out in a hurry or with low security standards. Here is how the cash out takes should place.
Full cash out or partial cash out? People who have been sitting on crypto for long have grown an emotional and irrational link with their coins. They come to me and say, look, I have 50m in crypto but I would like to cash out 500k only. So first let me tell you that as a wealth manager my advice to you is to take some off the table. Doing a partial cash out is absolutely fine. The market is bullish. We are witnessing a redistribution of wealth at a global scale. Bitcoin is the real #occupywallstreet, and every one will discuss crypto at Xmas eve which will make the market even more supportive beginning 2018, especially with all hedge funds entering the scene. If you want to stay exposed to bitcoin and altcoins, and believe these techs will change the world, it’s just natural you want to keep some coins. In the meantime, if you have lived off pizzas over the last years, and have the means to now buy yourself an nice house and have an account at a private bank, then f***ing do it mate ! Buy physical gold with this account, buy real estate, have some cash at hands. Even though US dollar is worthless to your eyes, it’s good and convenient to have some. Also remember your wife deserves it ! And if you have no wife yet and you are socially awkward like the rest of us, then maybe cashing out partially will help your situation ;) What the Private Banks expect. Joke aside, it is important you understand something. If you come around in Zurich to open a bank account and partially cash out, just don’t expect Private Banks will make an exception for you if you are small. You can’t ask them to facilitate your cash out, buy a 1m apartment with the proceeds of the sale, and not leave anything on your current account. It won’t work. Sadly, under 5m you are considered small in private banking. The bank is ok to let you open an account, provided that your kyc and compliance file are validated, but they will also want you to become a client and leave some money there to invest. This might me despicable, but I am just explaining you their rules. If you want to cash out, you should sell enough to be comfortable and have some left. Also expect the account opening to last at least 3-4 week if everything goes well. You can't just open an account overnight. The cash out logistics. Cashing out 1m USD a day in bitcoin or more is not so hard. Let me just tell you this: Even if you get a Tier 4 account with Kraken and ask Alejandro there to raise your limit over $100k per day, Even if you have a bitfinex account and you are willing to expose your wealth there, Even if you have managed to pass all the crazy due diligence at Bitstamp, The amount should be fractioned to avoid risking your full wealth on exchange and getting slaughtered on the price by trading big quantities. Cashing out involves significant risks at all time. There is a security risk of compromising your keys, a counterparty risk, a fat finger risk. Let it be done by professionals. It is worth every single penny. Most importantly, there is a major difference between trading on an exchange and trading OTC. Even though it’s not publicly disclosed some exchange like Kraken do have OTC desks. Trading on an exchange for a large amount will weight on the prices. Bitcoin is a thin market. In my opinion over 30% of the coins are lost in translation forever. Selling $10m on an exchange in a day can weight on the prices more than you’d think. And if you trade on a exchange, everything is shown on record, and you might wipe out the prices because on exchanges like bitstamp or kraken ultimately your counterparties are retail investors and the market depth is not huge. It is a bit better on Bitfinex. It is way better to trade OTC. Accessing the institutional OTC market is not easy, and that is also the reason why you should ask a regulated financial intermediary if we are talking about huge amounts. Last point, always chose EUR as opposed to USD. EU correspondent banks won’t generally block institutional amounts. However we had the cases of USD funds frozen or delayed by weeks. Most well-known OTC desks are Cumberlandmining (ask for Lucas), Genesis (ask for Martin), Bitcoin Suisse AG (ask for Niklas), circletrade, B2C2, or Altcoinomy (ask for Olivier) Very very large whales can also set up escrow accounts for massive block trades. This world, where blocks over 30k BTC are exchanged between 2 parties would deserve a reddit thread of its own. Crazyness all around. Your options: DIY or going through a regulated financial intermediary. Execution trading is a job in itself. You have to be patient, be careful not to wipe out the order book and place limit orders, monitor the market intraday for spikes or opportunities. At big levels, for a large cash out that may take weeks, these kind of details will save you hundred thousands of dollars. I understand crypto holders are suspicious and may prefer to do it by themselves, but there are regulated entities who now offer the services. Besides, being a crypto millionaire is not a guarantee you will get institutional daily withdrawal limits at exchange. You might, but it will take you another round of KYC with them, and surprisingly this round might be even more aggressive that the ones at Private banks since exchange have gone under intense scrutiny by regulators lately. The fees for cashing out through a regulated financial intermediary to help you with your cash out should be around 1-2% flat on the nominal, not more. And for this price you should get the full package: execution/monitoring of the trades AND onboarding in a private bank. If you are asked more, you are being abused. Of course, you also have the option to do it yourself. It is a way more tedious and risky process. Compliance with the exchange, compliance with the private bank, trading BTC/fiat, monitoring the transfers…You will save some money but it will take you some time and stress. Further, if you approach a private bank directly, it will trigger a series of red flag to the banks. As I said in my previous post, they call a direct approach a “walk-in”. They will be more suspicious than if you were introduced by someone and won’t hesitate to show you high fees and load your portfolio with in-house products that earn more money to the banks than to you. Remember also most banks still do not understand crypto so you will have a lot of explanations to provide and you will have to start form scratch with them! The paradox of crypto millionaires Most of my clients who made their wealth through crypto all took massive amount of risks to end up where they are. However, most of them want their bank account to be managed with a low volatility fixed income capital preservation risk profile. This is a paradox I have a hard time to explain and I think it is mainly due to the fact that most are distrustful towards banks and financial markets in general. Many clients who have sold their crypto also have a cash-out blues in the first few months. This is a classic situation. The emotions involved in hodling for so long, the relief that everything has eventually gone well, the life-changing dynamics, the difficulties to find a new motivation in life…All these elements may trigger a post cash-out depression. It is another paradox of the crypto rich who has every card in his hand to be happy, but often feel a bit sad and lonely. Sometimes, even though it’s not my job, I had to do some psychological support. A lot of clients have also become my friends, because we have the same age and went through the same “ordeal”. First world problem I know… Remember, cashing out is not the end. It’s actually the beginning. Don’t look back, don’t regret. Cash out partially, because it does not make sense to cash out in full, regret it and want back in. relax. The race to cash out crypto billionaire and the concept of late exiter. The Winklevoss brothers are obviously the first of a series. There will be crypto billionaires. Many of them. At a certain level you can have a whole family office working for you to manage your assets and take care of your needs . However, let me tell you it’s is not because you made it so big that you should think you are a genius and know everything better than anyone. You should hire professionals to help you. Managing assets require some education around the investment vehicles and risk management strategies. Sorry guys but with all the respect I have for wallstreebet, AMD and YOLO stock picking, some discipline is necessary. The investors who have made money through crypto are generally early adopters. However I have started to see another profile popping up. They are not early adopters. They are late exiters. It is another way but just as efficient. Last week I met the first crypto millionaire I know who first bough bitcoin over 1000$. 55k invested at the beginning of this year. Late adopter & late exiter is a route that can lead to the million. Last remarks. I know banks, bankers, and FIAT currencies are so last century. I know some of you despise them and would like to have them burn to the ground. With compliance officers taking over the business, I would like to start the fire myself sometimes. I hope this extensive guide has helped some of you. I am around if you need more details. I love my job despite all my frustration towards the banking industry because it makes me meet interesting people on a daily basis. I am a crypto enthusiast myself, and I do think this tech is here to stay and will change the world. Banks will have to adapt big time. Things have started to change already; they understand the threat is real. I can feel the generational gap in Geneva, with all these old bankers who don’t get what’s going on. They glaze at the bitcoin chart on CNBC in disbelief and they start to get it. This bitcoin thing is not a joke. Deep inside, as an early adopter who also intends to be a late exiter, as a libertarian myself, it makes me smile with satisfaction. Cheers. @swisspb on telegram
A message to the TRX Community and Justin Sun YuChen:
Everyone likes to play; which is why I'm educating this community with an Article on the topic of: Gamifying the Delivery of Money ( paraphrasing an article from HackerNoon.com ) If we can turn the distribution of this new "money" into a "game" of sorts, our success as a network will be all but guaranteed! The existence, the physical universe is basically playful... So we can say without a doubt, that gamifying "money" will rapidly attract interest from the world's population, as any good game would. ( Alan Watts: Your Life Is Not A Journey; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHnIJeE3LAI ) The layman's term goal of gamified money distribution is to simply get it evenly across the playing field, as quickly as possible, without devaluing the money. The essential reason for this is that, very simply; If everyone is playing the "game", the best players will soon join the lobby and queue up for a bit of "play"... (Attracting big players ensures the security of the "game", because big players will protect and support the game that they're "playing") Some of the most successful companies in the world "gamified" their company shares and experienced MASSIVE network effect growth because of this; Amazon paid their first employees with SHARES, not salaries... This incentivizes the employees to truly do their best work, knowing they will increase their "piece of the pie" evenly! This is what "blockchain" is at it's core level, it is the most efficient & technologically advanced form of distributing "shares" for ANY idea/company/nation/person... If you see that, you're already a true believer! Step 1: DESTROY your greed (partially) This is the easiest step, out of all 4 steps, just understand this one thing; As long as you have a slice of the pie, you simply focus on growing the pie, not the slice...You already have a share in this idea, so focusing on making the idea more powerful will increase the value of your shares, this is the beauty of a network effect and is the only reason you've made ANY money at all in the Blockchain Industry... Do not fall prey to the "tragedy of the commons" Step 2: Build (or buy) a Killer App First off, click here to see the definition of a "killer app" so your mind doesn't wander...BitTorrent is our killer app, and it may well be Blockchain's killer app; it is experiencing incentivization problems that highlight the dangers of the tragedy of the commons. This is a good thing, it gives Tron an opportunity to prove the use case of not only itself, but of all Blockchain technology' potential. Currently, BitTorrent is experiencing problems with "free riders"; people who only download files (consuming bandwidth) and failing to upload those files after they are finished. Essentially, users of BitTorrent are doing what's best for them, but not what's best for the BitTorrent network & protocol... This is not entirely their fault, Thomas Hobbes predicted some years ago; that to make a society function at massive scale, you need to have the right incentives in place. I'm sure all of us would mostly agree that the world currently has massive incentivization problems (ie. innocent homeless are starving, criminals in jail being fed/sheltered) It is my understanding and belief that Justin Sun YuChen bought BitTorrent in an effort to prove the use-case of Tron and therefore Bitcoin & Blockchain by extension... He saw the problems BitTorrent was having, and he looks at them as opportunities to flex the power of a decentralized internet... The TRX Coin would have amounted to nothing without a plan, without a Killer App, and you should know that Justin Sun has been trying to acquire BitTorrent since before the ICO started, he knew this... The coin is secondary, the coin is the "fuel", the "gas", he was focused on acquiring the "vehicle" first, as he should've... Step 3: STEALTHILY Gamify the Killer App There's nothing worse than overt, upfront gamification...Just think about flashy Las Vegas, get rich quick schemes, and timeshares; THAT is overt gamification... We need stealthy gamification... Imagine you have a sudden craving for a piece of content available on BitTorrent...You open your app, click download, and you're prompted with a request to "skip" the download time for 2 TRX, you click accept and your download is immediately available to fulfill your craving. Now think the same situation, but you don't need the content immediately, you can let it download while you cook your dinner. When you get back to your viewing device, the content is ready and you receive another pop-up request asking if you'd like to provide extra bandwidth to upload this video for others at a reward rate of 1 TRX per hour, you click accept, watch your movie and then suddenly get another craving... This time you don't want to wait, so you spend the 2 TRX you just earned... THIS is stealth gamification... It does not feel like Vegas, or a slot-machine, or gambling... You simply use it, get value, provide value, and transfer value... STEALTH GAMIFICATION REMEMBER THIS: Every person who adds to the value of the network, adds to the value of their AND everyone else's shares, which further incentives each party to continue adding value to the network. (This is why you've seen exponential growth in Cryptocurrencies) Network Effect: "Do what is best for the network, the network will thrive" Tragedy of the Commons: "Do what is best for yourself, the network will die" A proper network effect rewards those who benefit the network, and punishes those who exploit the network. BitTorrent has failed to truly succeed YET because they have only done half of the equation, they have only punished those who exploit the network (slowing download speeds for those who don't upload)... There is no "reward", they need the second portion of the equation, and TRX can provide that... effectively! Step 4: Reinvest & Revolutionize Economics If TRX can be successful in building this network effect, and properly manage their greed long enough to accomplish that goal, it will create "groups" of different gamified networks all receiving a steady stream of income and that will do something incredible historically speaking: It will END the quarterly result so thoroughly craved by share holders around the world... Rather than a network's value being represented by it's profits every 3 months, it will be truly and authentically represented by the power of the network, distinguishing itself in an entirely good way from typical stocks & shares in today's modern environment. Developers will no longer be forced to choose between producing a quality product, or pushing out some "thing" that will sell quickly and turn profit for the 3-month period... They will be directly incentivized to make the best quality product to increase their network effect, and therefore the value of their holdings... ENDING NOTES: If you become a greedy entity who tries to control everything, strangling the system with centralized choke points to keep all the money for yourself, you’ll accelerate the current collapse of our economic stability and break this world. Your crimes will live forever in infamy... But if you can resist the urge to dominate, to control, to horde every resource, you can unlock the vast hidden potential of the world. Do that and your deeds will echo in the halls of eternity... You. Just. Might. Save. The. World.
Here is my argument for a free market alternative to universal basic income
Here are my premises
Automation will continue to happen in the economy at an increasing rate because of A.I. and economic feedback loops putting people into more technical jobs thus increasing the rate of technological progress and automation even more.
Automation doesn't need to replace all jobs to create societal problems. In fact it doesn't even need to destroy jobs faster than they're created. It could be causing a net increase in potential careers. It only needs to replace jobs at a faster rate than average(or even below average) people can retrain and/or save enough money to retrain for a new career. As there will be a lot of problems if even 50% of the population is perpetually unemployed.
Future companies will be extremely profitable in an automation runaway event and the gap between rich and poor will increase accordingly.
So what is this solution? UBI is obviously one, but I think there is another; Blockchain Securities.
For those who don't know, a token is necessary for a blockchain to work, it doesn't have to be strictly a currency or "cryptocurrency". In fact I'd say cryptocurrency is not the killer app for blockchain technology. There will definitely be a few cryptocurrencies that dominate and are necessary for the infrastructure of this new economy to work, but it's like how no one uses google because they like visiting the google.com per se, they use google because they like visiting other sites and google happens to be the best way to get from A to B. Again this isn't common knowledge but there is something new to the industry called "security tokens" on blockchains, functionally you can use them in the same way you'd use bitcoin. You can divide them up to several decimal places and send fractions of a penny to anyone anywhere in the world for almost no cost (compared to traditional means). However, they have the added function that cryptocurrencies like bitcoin don't have, and that's being a security. One example is "crypto-stocks" which are tokens on a blockchain, as a financial instrument these are basically identical to traditional stocks as they actually pay you dividends and give you some small portion of ownership in a company. By my count there is at least a few dozen of these already on the market. A notable example is nexo which just a few days ago was officially marked as compliant by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission as a security. It a real stock that runs on a blockchain and that not only pays dividends but they do it monthly and are considering doing it weekly, as opposed to traditional stocks that pay out quarterly or annually. They can do that because blockchains make it much more logistically possible. The advantages of crypto-stocks over traditional stocks are substantial. One advantage is you can purchase them (in principle) in any amount, in minutes. Traditional stock investing has absurdly high fees if you go through a firm or advisor. And not only that, you also have to have several thousand dollars in cash just to open an account in a lot of places. In order to be an "accredited" investor in America you essentially have to be a millionaire. This makes it very difficult for even middle class people to invest. What's particularly interesting about crypto-stocks that wasn't really practical before blockchain, is that they would be just as fungible and divisible as currency. Imagine walking into a coffee shop and instead of paying with USD $$$ you pay with some composite of your portfolio. You buy a coffee and pay with $1.0 of Tesla stocks and $0.5 of Amazon stocks and maybe $0.5 of an asset backed security like gold, or any arbitrary combination of your choice that you set up in your personal settings of your payment app. And of course the coffee shop could receive fiat or cryptocurrency regardless of what you used to pay as the conversion is done instantly on the back end. And it's all done cheaper than a traditional credit card transaction. The major advantage of having stocks in your account as opposed to a national currency, is not only will you not lose money because of inflation, you will gain money because of the dividends just for sitting in your account. Also there is a lot of existential risk to your currency if you don't have the privilege of living in a first world country(See, Greece, Valenzuela, Zimbabwe, ect.). So now lets imagine massive unemployment because of automation. Companies are making insane profits. If you can manage to buy some of these crypto-stocks, which should be possible since you can buy them in tiny amounts. Then you can receive passive income and you have a small piece of ownership in a company. Since (crypto)stock yields will be extreme in this scenario where companies are extremely profitable, you might be able to get enough to sustain your existence or even profit! If you think about it, it's almost the same as UBI in a way since with UBI the government just takes taxes from the companies, rather than profit directly, and then redistributes the wealth accordingly. However, the crypto-stock model removes the need for the government as the middleman and would arguably be much more efficient since funds can be distributed to everyone within minutes at high frequencies rather than having to go through an entire costly and slow tax system. There are even more advantages to this system like removing tax burden of UBI on smaller companies which helps with innovation, since they are only paying if they make some profit. It also keeps competition between companies high which keeps them running efficiently. This system gives us all the benefits of wealth redistribution but the practicality and efficiency of a freemarket. And it encourages people to save since the more they save the more profit they can make in the long term which will reduce consumerism to the necessarily amount, which will hopefully have a positive impact on how much we pollute. Of course there will still be a gap between rich and poor but there would still be with a UBI model. Everyone could decide which companies they want to invest in, which means people are more directly participating in the global economy, making it more efficient. Of course not everyone has the time or ability to be a stock analyst but that problem is easily solved with index funds, which would also be a crypto-stock. TL:DR: Blockchain + insanely profitable companies due to AI and automation would allow for a free market alternative to UBI. It allows everyone to get a share of the profits of mega companies. It can shift the economy from a debt based one to an equity based one.
What's Driving the Bitcoin Revolution: Why $100 worth of Bitcoin is worth more than 100 US Dollars
Those skeptical of bitcoin have a tendency to view it as analogous to certain historical currency manias. Just about every commodity you can think of has been used as money at some point, famously including the giant stone money of Yap island, and Dutch tulipomania. Tulipomania created economic-history's most famous case of a speculative bubble that went sour. Many, including my own brother, continue to paint bitcoin with the tulip-moniker. A speculative bubble occurs when an asset's price deviates from its intrinsic value. But because bitcoin is not a stock or a company, people seem to have trouble realizing why bitcoin should have any value at all, and that's what I want to focus on. The stunning fact is that $100 worth of bitcoin (0.699 BTC as of this writing) is worth more than $100 in any other fiat currency in the world. One way we know this is that people continue to pay fees between 1% - 4% to purchase bitcoin with fiat currencies. Thus, people would rather have $96 - $99 worth of bitcoin than $100 of fiat currency. The underlying reasons for this are bitcoin's killer features:
Lower Transaction Costs
This is the economic case for bitcoin, that because bitcoin transactions are irreversible and can be conducted at the cost of pennies, or even for free (if time is no object), regardless of the value being transferred, the result is that retailers find bitcoin extremely attractive--they can improve their profits by nearly the same percentage that they no longer pay Visa/MC/PayPal for payment processing and transaction insurance. I recently had someone argue that they didn't consider this a killer feature because they believed that Visa could simply lower their transaction fees to remain competitive. This person simply didn't get it. When Visa charges you ~$200 on a $10,000 transaction and a typical bitcoin transaction for the same amount costs $0.13 cents, there's not much room for Visa to lower fees and remain profitable, unless they want to fire 99% of their workforce, sell off every single one of their commercial properties, and abandon fraud protection and a hundred other things they do to remain profitable. Bitcoin defeats the credit card companies on a structural basis which constitutes a classic case of market disruption for which the companies being disrupted have no effective defense. Because of bitcoin's lower transaction costs, both buyer and retailer should receive and offer better deals of existing goods. At first, retailers will keep prices the same in dollar terms, just price them in bitcoin, and enjoy a significant profit advantage, which their competitors will have to replicate to compete, creating a virtuous cycle of bitcoin adoption among retailers. But, as retailers in general complete this adoption cycle and begin competing on a bitcoin-basis, they will lower their prices in bitcoin to reflect the lower transaction costs and consumers will begin to benefit directly. The value of bitcoin to humanity is directly tied to this feature of lower transaction costs which improves the marginal profitability of every single transaction it's used in, meaning in the end lower prices for consumers and raising everyone's standard of living. That's why bitcoin deserves a market cap of many trillions of dollars, because it has inherent financial advantages in its use, and everyone in the world could profit by using it, making everyone's lives better.
We live in an age where governments believe they have a right to take whatever amount of wages from you that they decide is fair, and to ban the ownership of drugs and weapons they (foolishly) decide they don't want you to own. Bitcoin offers an easy way to circumvent government payment-snooping and ethical gray-markets like Silk Road. But even if you, like me, have no interest in gray-market transactions, you can take financial privacy that your bank will not give you. By law banks must inform on you to the government, and chances are your purchases are crawled by government computers every single day. With bitcoin you can conduct as anonymous a transaction as currently possible, connecting to retailers via the TOR network, keeping wallets no one knows you own, etc., etc. Privacy in the bitcoin ecosystem is a topic worth of study to itself. What I still remember to this day are the words of certain German anarchs I'd met once whom refused to show their face in public anymore or give out their real name--they believe that privacy needed to be taken by each person, not merely expected of other people to give to them.
Perhaps bitcoin's more controversial feature is the expectation of continual deflation over time. Many don't understand how or why this works or what effect it would have on an economy, and some (Keynesians) even think it would harm an economy. Nothing could be further from the truth. Bitcoin will grow in value as more people begin to demand it as they learn of it. Some have accused bitcoin therefore of being little more than a speculative tulip-bubble. Frankly I would agree with them if it weren't for the fact of lower transaction costs. But it's also true that even without having the lowest transaction costs, bitcoin would probably still be able to survive as a currency in its own right simply from its deflationary policy. Even after everyone on earth knows about and even uses bitcoin, it would continue to deflate and gain in price as workers became more productive overall, generating more wealth, demanding more goods, and as the population of the planet grows so too will the value of bitcoin. This makes it good to hold bitcoin for future purposes, which encourages savings, which means people have bitcoin to invest when a really good opportunity comes around, which is how the modern world was built. Economies become rich the same way people do: by producing more than they consume (and saving it). All the people who say it's good to get rich by borrowing rather than saving ignore that without the savers there would be no one to borrow from. We are living in a period of historic value-gain that will not often be repeated, and by the time bitcoin's market cap reaches $100 billion would never occur again, so the people who worry about continual volatility should not worry. When bitcoin becomes the native unit of account, volatility (as measured in other currencies) becomes a non-issue.
Much Lower Existential Currency Risk
Much has been made of bitcoin's vulnerability to hackers and the like. But what of the risk of politicians hyperinflating a currency and destroying its value thereby, such as has happened in so many countries around the world. Bitcoin was founded with the idea of ending the necessity for 3rd party trust in a currency. There's no bitcoin central bank, no equivalent of Bernanke setting fiscal policy, no government controlling supply of bitcoin or abusing it to pump the market on an election year. Bitcoin replaces the existential risk of a fiat currency with the existential risk of a hacker, or of trusting the robustness of the bitcoin program. Of the two scenarios, I think it better to risk facing the hacker, because there are very good steps a person can take to be quite sure that a hacker cannot take their bitcoin, and with the advent of hardware wallets this won't even be a big concern anymore. And as for the robustness of the bitcoin program itself, trust in that can only build with time and use. I think the price increases starting in January are in part a reflection of growing confidence in bitcoin, that it had passed the first big test, the June '11 crash, that the block reward halving experience had proved that mining would continue despite the halving, and the recent blockchain fork showed how the network responds to an emergency bug. Now all we need is someone to attempt a 51% attack and find themselves almost immediately defeated and the stress test will be complete :P So when you tell someone about bitcoin, when you tell them about the massive uptake in users and the resulting price increase as a result of growing demand, they will imagine it a bubble, but remember to tell them the fact of lower transaction costs. It is the heart of bitcoin adoption. People want bitcoin because $100 worth of bitcoin is actually worth at least $135 (if you factor in future expected value increases via deflation and discount it to present value, and existing and expected inflation in fiat currencies, and lower overall transaction costs generally which make things cheaper to buy in bitcoin than in dollars). That figure could vary significantly from person to person depending on how fast they think bitcoin adoption will take place (if they do at all), how much they value personal privacy, etc., but this is why people are going to continue to prefer bitcoin over fiat, and move into it slowly but surely. If this is not a bubble, then it is the world waking up to the true valuation of bitcoin and slowly realizing that this idea is set to change the world. We live in a historic epoch, and finance will never be the same again.
EDIT: TL;DR: $100 worth of bitcoin is worth more than $100 worth of fiat currency because bitcoin will increase in value continually as opposed to fiat which will continually decrease in value, bitcoin can be made far more private than any other kind of online transaction, and because of lower transaction costs which will improve profit margins for businesses and increase purchasing power of buyers resulting in a higher standard of living for everyone and greater overall productivity in the economy. Also, you can more easily defend against hackers than against central bankers.
First off, let me state that I am not even close to a professional when it comes to trading. I got in a few months ago for passive income from copying 3.14fx and have come a long way since then, quadrupling my initial investment and losing half of it. I've watched traders such as cfdtrader, Lumyo, Robot, and crypto_chris lose several hundred percent after a fail from opening multiple positions. I got into 1broker to make money without monitoring it, but instead I learned a lot about trading and risk management, even profiting off several of my own trades. It's a valuable experience in itself even if you're not profiting and I wouldn't give it up for anything. If these losses are enough to make you quit, so be it. Investing comes with risks that some people can't handle. It's not free money. https://www.dailyfx.com/calendar is the economic calendar that I use while trading. High importance events can easily trigger a 80% loss or gain depending on the direction you choose. It's highly risky to trade when someone of great importance such as Draghi or Yellen are speaking. Even if you follow a general MAX 5% rule, you will still lose up to 16% of your account if somebody opens 4 of the same positions and they stop at 80%. Making back money is also tougher than losing it, as once you lose 16% of your account, 5% of your account is a lot less than before. Therefore, you have less capital per trade. Also, be careful when changing your copy amount. I often see copiers saying things like "Great work, I'm upping my copy amount" and "Increased copy amount from x to x". In my opinion, increasing a copy amount should only be done when your initial amount is already low. Losses on a higher copy amount may wipe out the gains on a smaller copy amount. (-50% loss with 0.1 btc = +100% gains with 0.05 btc) Always stick to a 5% max rule unless you're feeling risky. Then, there comes the gambling/greed phase that many new copiers often do. (Guilty of this myself). After extreme success, a copier may feel the need to upgrade their copy reward to maximize profit. Or after extreme failure, a copier may feel they need to upgrade their copy reward to make up for losses. All of these are mistakes. 1broker is not filled with market professionals. Most of us here are either self taught or complete novices. Professionals would not be sharing their trades for about $70-80 for each trade (at best). They won't be asking for copiers on other traders' profiles. They won't be using a Pikachu as their profile picture. They won't be using a broker that isn't heavily regulated and insured. They would be using their own capital to make millions off of trades. Remember, any newbie can easily accumulate winning trades by gambling with high leverage. As long as they have around $1300 as of now, they can easily create a profile that suggests that they are a professional, when in reality they are entering at random points and exiting when a position turns into profit, rather than using technical analysis and watching economic calendars. And even the best of traders will have their ups and downs. I've stuck with 3.14FX even when he reached -100% this month because he's had a great history on this site. I feel that he can make the money that he loses back. And even though he has doubled up on a position yesterday (not sure why, probably was extremely confident), it was a success. Can you really trust anyone? No way! Unlike regular trading, 1broker is more unregulated. Signing up requires no personal information so any user with malicious intent can build up a steady reputation and perform an exit scam (or have a massive failure) without any reparations. Robot has no link to any social media or anything in his profile. For all we know, he could own another account that has -100%, and he is depending on luck while opening multiple positions to accumulate followers. (I just used Robot as an example, my intent is not to accuse him of multiple accounts) Then there are potential exit scams (from a trader, not 1broker itself) that will drain a decent portion of your account. There's a reason why you have a choice to choose how many trades maximum you can copy per day. This hasn't happened yet, but it will definitely happen in the foreseeable future. Somebody will set up an order for 50 shorts and 50 longs and set the take profit and stop loss the opposite of each other. Then after closing, they'll withdraw their bitcoin never to be heard of again. When you put your trust in a trader, you should trust them to carefully monitor a trade. Unfortunately, there's currently no way to tell if your copied trader is online or not, so you'll never know if they're in a coma and won't be back for another 6 months. My suggestion is to either take profit when you think that the conditions are correct or just trust the trader. Nobody can see the future. If you think that you'll rather close the trade before the weekend, it's your choice. If you think upcoming news will destroy the trade, feel free to close early. However, be prepared for regret if it goes up, or a great feeling that you dodged a bullet if it goes down. It's all a part of trading. 1broker's copy system is seriously flawed at the moment. Of course, there's no easy way to fix it. Why would a great trader want to share one of their trades if they're not getting much out of it? This encourages opening multiple positions to maximize copy rewards, which can result in massive losses. Robot is one of the traders exploiting this. So how can you prevent massive losses? There's really no way. You're putting your trust in random people without an identity, who can easily be a scammer. When it comes to people like Robot, I put 1-2% of my funds because I know that he opens multiple positions. This is why I'm always sticking with 3.14FX, he established himself a long time ago and he knows what he is doing. Somebody who has been on the platform for over 3 years with several losses is preferable to an anonymous newcomer who just registered but appears to be good at trading. Also, the percentage on 1broker is misleading. You may think "Wow, I'm going to get an 500% of my initial investment if I copy Lumyo!" In reality, you should only be using 5% max of your capital per trade. If you copied him from the beginning (I started copying at around 90%), you should have only gained 25% rather than 500%. But still, 25% of your initial investment is huge.
My opinion on several traders
vits2015: If you watched vits2015 from the beginning, you would know that their style of trading is... off. 15 positions on UK100, all short, some of them at -30% when I first saw him as a successful trader. What does that tell me about him? He can open up to 6 positions on the same trade at once, and is willing to hold them as long as possible to get a profit. (Average holding time 8 days) gtfann: Even with recent losses, he still appears to be a decent trader. It seems that he upped his usual leverage due to the crowds of traders flocking to copy him though. Multiple positions with a lower leverage isn't really something that I like either, but I'm sticking with him for now until there's a drastic change. vaiono: He lets his losses play out and even though he has a decent track record,it's still risky to play with. Silver is extremely volatile and due to leverage, a small move in any direction can either be a huge loss or huge gain. Snortex: Pretty much a meme on 1broker. He acknowledges his trading style and warns his copiers. I like him as a person due to his warnings, but still wouldn't recommend copying him unless you can afford to lose a lot. Edit: After examination of his trades, I feel like he's not only gambling like his description suggests. His entries are planned out carefully (Although that has hurt him when there was a flash crash). You'll take several 80% losses but you may take several 400% gains. He seems to have a habit of chasing a trade, which can lead to multiple 80% losses. However, once the trend reverses, his profits go through the roof. When you're copying, copy for the long term! Of course, feel free to uncopy if you feel that the bottom is still far away. noIDea: He has had bad stretches in the past, but still makes his way back. I think he's a good trader and even though he opens multiple positions, he's one of the best at setting stop losses so the risk is not as high as others who open multiple trades. Gold_Gangsta: Name change from Crypto Chris for some reason? Be wary of multiple positions as the USDJPY fiasco shows. Seems to be doing fairly well with gold as of now. 1monk2: Multiple positions fairly often, even says that he's drunk in the description. This is gambling. knightlife999: The description definitely shows promise. There is no proof to those claims on the site, but I feel it's safe to allocate some of your funds toward copying him with his track record. HedgeCryFx Risk 5: Decent trader, pays attention to economic calendar as well. The only problem is that he lets losses play out to 80% boogi: I would be wary about the higher losses, but then again, there's a good track record. sergiomc: Seems to be decent at trading stocks. With an average holding time of 14 days and leverage of 10, you should be expecting to lose about ~3.92% of your gains to financing, which is not actually that much. Cool Hand Luke: Low leverage trading. If you were to copy him, I would recommend only using 1% or 2% of your account max per trade if you plan on copying others as well. He's a great trader for slow steady gains, but if you're looking to get rich fast or go broke trying, this is not the guy for you. eylemc: Quick trades with minimal profit and no losses so far. As of now, it may be too early to judge, but I think that he's somebody that might be worth copying. Edit: Seems to let losses play out to 80%. Be wary. 3.14fx: Back in the game, doing well with stocks and USDJPY recently. High leverage, but usually stops losses within a reasonable range. SunnyNet: Small gains, huge losses. Be wary as your first copied trade could easily be a -80%. SatoshiReport: Trading using a neural network, after looking deep into the trade history, I'm not so sure about it. Correct me if I am wrong, but the bot doesn't take into account important news and events. Edit: This bot has too many flaws to continue copying in my opinion. Even with the previous gains, it opens the same position as soon as one closes, negating the 33% stop loss AND forcing a loss due to the spread. The only thing that keeps it out of the negative is the rare 80% gains that you might find once in a while. CryptoMessiah: The image being shown on his twitter has weird numbers on it (USDJPY at 100-103 in the matter of minutes), I think it's a simulator so it isn't actually "proved". Also, asking people to copy for "free money" is misleading as anything can go wrong in the forex market, there is no guaranteed money. I copied with a minimum 0.001 btc and will update this post if the bot proves to be successful. Edit: Tons of losses trying to get the right direction and then huge wins. I would say it's ok, but you're better off with a human capitalizing on gains. The only advantage to this bot is 24/7 hour trading. kosanet: His description says it all. Be careful while copying, but don't be discouraged to place an amount you can afford to lose. He seems to have a great history of monitoring losses (positions never get below 20%) but it's still a new profile who clearly states that he's not a pro. May open multiple trades and trading with USDJPY a lot. His scalping strategy means that overnight fees won't be an issue. Edit: Now he's starting to be a little more risky with his trades as more copiers arrive. Be careful, he never reached liquidation at 80% yet but he could at any moment. google: A bit late to the party, but what can I say? I honestly can't believe he accumulated 190 copiers but he seems to have faded out quickly. Golgo13 is having a fun time on all of his trades KillerWhale: Extremely high risk with all of those multiple positions. Like google and robot, don't be fooled by performance recently and look through their whole account. People who saw the 220% recently may have missed when he was in -475% a few days ago. SoontobeWW3: Great trader in my opinion. However, I think emotion plays a role in his trading as every huge loss is often followed by more. APPoh: Seems to know what he's doing. However, there is a very short trading history and we're never sure. Positions can reach 50% without closing, so it's very possible that he might let losses play out to 80%. dingo: Not much to say. Good with 1 position at a time, and even with the 80% loss last month, still ended in profit. Be careful as he might sometimes not stop a position and instead wait for it to recover and a 80% loss is huge compared to his gains. Edit August 12: Will stop adding new traders now. Before copying someone, remember:
Check their trading history, ALL OF IT. You're entrusting them with your money, you should be 100% sure.
Wait until they've established themselves. Sure, you can be frustrated about potentially losing 200% profit, but it sure beats 700% losses.
I already expressed my views on Robot and 3.14FX above. Lumyo is currently inactive. Last tip: Don't uncopy people if you feel like they can make it back. If you choose to copy someone, you're in it for the long run. Now this may contradict some of my earlier statements, but if you have somebody that you believe in, don't uncopy them after a loss. Eventually, they will make their way back up and after you see their success again, you'll be tempted to copy again. Of course, if you are copying somebody who you have no faith in, feel free to drop them. Cutting your losses short is important to learn in trading.
Did some soul searching.... I will never sell my Crypto! I made up my mind Expect for my profit taking strategy to take 1% of then total value of my portfolio every month to EURO and send to my family's savings account. This will keep my crypto investments pretty huge but will also give me a nice little bag of profits in EURO every month to enjoy and spend with my family. I truly believe crypto, Bitcoin, Ethereum and others can be a revolution, and that I am really lucky to have invested so early. Selling now will be like selling Microsoft stocks at 5 USD years ago. I will keep investing in ICO's Only projects I really like and never more then 5% of my holdings per ICO. I will 100% stop trading and only HODL Trading is such a time killer and stress factor, I am getting tired of it and don't want to spend my life checking the charts all day. (I will of course sell if crazy stuff happens) My bags are full and nicely balanced (in my opinion of course) - 40% ICN - 13% WBB/DLS - 12% INCNT - 10% ANT - 8% WAVES - 8% ETH - 5% ICNX - 3% BTC - 1% BCAP I see 3 possible outcomes now
If crypto is truly the revolution I think it will be == I will be Fucking rich
If crypto is a bubble and 'only' keeps going up for a year or so before it pops == I will have taken out a lot of EURO profits
If crypto is a bubble and crashes tomorrow == I will be a little sad but will probably have sold lots halfway down and I already have made my profits long ago
BITCOIN, analogous to owning Ocean-Front Property in the future..
Aside from money being the first 'Killer App' and having a monetary value per bitcoin. In the future, btc won't be seen as a unit of value like a penny, quarter or dollar, but more as a finite commodity. Like ocean-front property, where there is only so much available; and if you want to live along the shore then you will have to pay a premium. That premium being at the very least .000000001 btc's so that you can use it to transfer $1,000,000.00 or assign whatever value you want to that .00000001 btc. If someone needs to transfer the deed to their house and they need .00000001 bitcoin to program the contract, then they can go to you, whom own .5 bitcoins, and you can sell them .00000001 btc's for whatever you can get so that they can transfer their deed. I see a future craigslist where people sell fractions of bitcoins to rich people who need just one Satoshi to transfer something somewhere. The BTC Market in the future will look sooooo different that it does today. Bitcoins will be future bargain chips. But to get that .000000001 btc and to participate in the blockchain of the future, it'll cost ya. So stock up on your ocean front property while the price is still reasonably low so you can sell it to rich people in the future.
I'm selling a few games and various inventory items.
Simply message me here or add me on Steam and we can get started! Quite a lot of my game stock isn't available due to time restrictions so if you want a game let me know and i'll get back to you if I have it. Here's a link my Steam inventory
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